I realize that almost no one reads weekend posts, but this was simply too good to let alone. I recently got a comment in my inbox about a long gone boobs as products and, well, just see for yourself.
Hi,
I’m a male who’s taken an interest in gender studies, and I feel inclined to point out that you are only gaining ground for women and equality with these products.
1) The men who buy these products (though plenty of women would love them too) are going from a point where boobs/women are extra-ordinary to a point where they can finally be seen as ordinary and common place. In other words, when you get tired of your boobs being seen as something more than the heavy burden that they are to you, your guy friends with these products might just relate or sympathize because they’d learn to see them as nothing special.
2) While you’ve been seeing gender norms as a personal problem for you, have you ever noticed how men hardly ever get to be hugged in society? As gender norms stand, sex is the only way in which a man is allowed to display or gain physical affection. At least this way, with a stress boob, boob soap dispenser, or boob pillow, a man can relieve himself of this stress through fantasies that aren’t only centered around what happens to his penis. Then, when you expect that such a man passing by would usually be trying to hump your leg, he’ll likely not care because he’s done something to relieve himself of his problem that arises from gender norms which hinder men.
The solution to equality, no matter how unjust or unfortunate one side or another has endured, is give and take. Give a dog a bone and he’ll stop begging for what’s on your plate. If that’s not a compromise that you feel comfortable with, then I might suggest that there’s a possibility that you as a woman are feeling the tension that can come from the threat of losing your own gender privilege. Try considering that when you tell men that they should give up their privileges of power to suit your needs.
Where to even begin. I would first point this commenter to the feminism 101 blog, specifically to the patriarchy hurts men too section.
Lastly, I would highly recommend reading up on male privilege, with special attention paid to what the role is for a privilege person entering the space of a non-privileged group (I recommend starting with these two posts: A Deeper Look at “Minority Spaces” and “Check my what?” On privilege and what we can do about it). Oh, and don’t forget to check out the Related Reading section below.
Secondly I would like to give a brief commentary. You’ve proven than an interest is certainly not an education and should not be treated as such. Boobs are not extraordinary in our culture, you can see them morning noon and night in real life and on the internet, interest has not waned, try a new argument. I’m not sure how it is my fault that the patriarchy has instructed men that displays of non-sexual physical affection are feminine and therefore bad and undesireable. I do not feel personally responsible for the tenacity of this belief, nor do I feel that I should just grin and bear the commodification of women’s bodies for the stress relief of men. Furthermore, I have to question what sort of men you know that have to hump legs if they don’t get “stress relief” in the form of bathtime boobies. Lastly, I think it takes brass ones to come in and say that I should be just dandy with the commodification of the female body since it’ll help me out in the long run (oh those savage men, they’re not allowed to hug so they can only hump–and you don’t want them to hump you right?) while you proclaim that I’m the one with gender privilege. Pot meet kettle. Women are supposed to bear the burden because the patriarchy told you you couldn’t hug? The same patriarchy that tells women their bodies are up for grabs and their emotions are stupid because they’re women? Maybe you should consider your own gender privilege that allows you to think it is appropriate to tell women to grin and bear being treated as disembodied parts for sale if they don’t want their legs humped.
What is sexual objectification
Don’t women have “female privilege”
Edit: I just recovered Steve’s last comment:
No manafanana, I mentioned one course, I’ve taken more. You three are morons. It’s not worth explaining the details because you just want to insult any man who dares to speak in your presence.
I am on the side of real feminism as it is not applied as a fight against men but rather a fight against gender as a social construct. Choose your battles more wisely in the future and you might help make progress instead of contributing to the bad rap that women are given.
Yes ladies, he’s on the real side of feminism. You know, the one where you tell women how to speak and feel, ignore what they say and fall into patriarchal stereotypes about how all women treat men differently based on their sexuality. But most of all–women should just get over being treated like commodities for the betterment of all. Better go turn in your feminism cards now if you aren’t on the bus with “real feminism” or else you’ll contribute to his prejudices against women. Oh no. The power is youuuuuuuuuuuuuuurs to make men treat you like a human being–by allowing yourself to be treated like an object.
Feminocracy 
I would also like to add that the suggestion that men neeeeeeeeeed to objectify women because the patriarchy doesn’t let them hug is ethnocentric as well. Different cultures have different standards of personal space, physical contact and how that relates to gender.
My own example is the Middle East. I lived in Jordan for 4 months, and during that period, men hugged in greeting, kissed each other on the cheek, and held hands walking down the street. These were presumably heterosexual men, behaving in a culturally appropriate way. And guess what? Women were still treated like sexual objects. oddly though, it was about the same as being in the US when it came to being female in public, if not better. I got catcalled, touched, and hit on less in that four months than I have been since puberty living in the states.
By: Dori on March 14, 2009
at 4:48 pm
Ophelia,
So, if I understand your response, you are simply stating that I’m wrong, that my opinion is laughable, and not explaining why, and you are falsely accusing me of not noticing the burden that both sexes in American culture have to endure.
You also try to play as if I have a half-hearted idea of what the studies of gender have found. Forget what my transcripts have to say in my defense, why is it that you have yet to understand that in American culture women are treated as extra-ordinary while men are treated as normal? This is by far not a privilege for women as your feelings are evidence of because it’s not an advantage to never be treated as equal just because you are seen as something special. Just so that we’re clear, have you actually studied gender?
I’m not expecting you to grin and bear anything. It’s not your body that’s being objectified, it’s a piece or rubber or plastic. The fact that you imply a totalitarian ruling that men should conduct their private sex lives in ways that make you feel comfortable is equivalent to religious groups claiming that they should have a say in what happens behind closed doors of the lives of homosexuals. I still maintain that letting go of the specialness of objects resembling your body parts, REGARDLESS of what men do to let go of their own privileges, is a step toward equality.
If you must blow off my points again, please at least answer this question for me in your own opinion: Why aren’t men complaining about the objectivity of dildos in our society, yet women are complaining about the objectivity of plastic and rubber that resembles their own body parts?” If there’s an exception to this that I don’t know about, recognize at the very least that women disgrace how much pleasure men get out of women’s body parts while men love and appreciate the pleasure that women get out of men’s body parts far more often than not. Why exactly is that the case if not because women, in this fashion, are protecting their own gender privilege or maintaining their own gender norm expectations?
And no, it’s not your fault that men don’t get loved as much as women, but it is still your responsibility to encourage that they get treated as though they are allowed to be, just as much as it is my responsibility to encourage that women should be allowed to fill positions of power and authority. It takes a group effort and no one side is to blame nor devoid of the responsibility to change. Especially since the system as it stands today is really a self-fulfilling prophesy that needs to be unhinged in a way that is for everyone’s benefit if it is to change.
Just a side note, while your response was not exactly nice, I give mad props to the fact that you posted my message and responded to it in a new article. Way to face the issue head on!
Dori,
Your point is good and well taken, but as I have only been raised in American culture I only know that American gender culture needs to change. The effects of culture on any group are dynamic and powerful and just because two groups may share similarities culturally doesn’t necessarily mean that they share the same reasons nor that they both need to change due to those factors.
I understand that middle eastern culture has gender problems that do need to change from the horror stories that I’ve heard. As far as why middle eastern men would be most afraid of letting go of their gender privilege, I haven’t got a clue because I didn’t grow up with that life.
I can however say from my own experience that I was obsessed with sex to a degree that was self-destructive. Until one day, a year after first being taught about gender as a social construct, I adopted two kittens and chose to act ‘girly’ in ways that came natural to my personality when with them, and the obsession with sex disappeared. I still like sex and like the thought of being kinky, but I don’t neeeed it anymore.
By: Steve on March 14, 2009
at 7:49 pm
“Just so that we’re clear, have you actually studied gender?”
Actually yes, however one would imagine that living life as a woman would be enough credentials for me to point out when something is objectification and have it be taken seriously. Silly me. However, I do have a minor in gender and women’s studies if its all the same to you.
“I still maintain that letting go of the specialness of objects resembling your body parts, REGARDLESS of what men do to let go of their own privileges, is a step toward equality.”
You can maintain whatever you wish however the results don’t match your hypothesis. These products have not disappeared from the market, yet somehow women still aren’t treated as equals. In fact, these objects are used to emphasize the different-ness of women and signify how they are meant to be used for sexual pleasure. The male body is not similarly commodified for the same purpose. When there are items fashioned in the likeness of male genitalia, they are used for sex or to signify masculinity (truck nutz anyone?). I believe there is a difference between an item intended to mimic sexual intercourse and a remote control. If a woman–or man wants to have penatrative sex, they’ll need something phallus shaped (or theoretically vagina/anus shaped). I’m not sure where you’re going with this particular argument. Are dildos fashioned in the same way? Is there a penis shaped remote that has buttons like “give chocolate” “do dishes”? If not, perhaps the answer is that the only people who reduce men to penis size are the men themselves–hence the lack of complaint.
” And no, it’s not your fault that men don’t get loved as much as women, but it is still your responsibility to encourage that they get treated as though they are allowed to be, just as much as it is my responsibility to encourage that women should be allowed to fill positions of power and authority. It takes a group effort and no one side is to blame nor devoid of the responsibility to change. Especially since the system as it stands today is really a self-fulfilling prophesy that needs to be unhinged in a way that is for everyone’s benefit if it is to change.”
It seems a rather lofty goal. I can’t even get you to respect my feelings about these objects yet I’m going to be able to convince men that they ought to hug more? I’ve made a few posts on how the patriarchy hurts men too–I believe we even have a tag for it, however, as the feminism 101 blog points out, men should be standing up. Hell one post down I have a post wondering where all my “what about the men” posters went since some website peddling rape videos are calling themselves “macho” and indicating that this is how men are. Where are the men who are constantly defending themselves against my thoughts to defend themselves against this characterization?
I don’t recall ever settling for the idea that men simply shouldn’t have feelings or express them, but again, how is it my responsibility to challenge these notions alone? I think you need to take a look at more articles on the idea of privilege. It just feels incredibly disengenous to say that the oppressed should take on both their cause and everyone else’s first before they are to be taken seriously. I’ve never been pro patriarchy and in my agitation I have spoken about the way the patriarchy treats men–how could you not? The patriarchy defines men in terms of what they are not and what they should not be, which is anything remotely female. Men are valued because they are not women and women are devalued because they are not men. Your inability to openly hug is the other side of the coin to my being unable to make a point without someone accusing me of being over emotional (which is of course bad). We are talking about the same thing but because I am not speaking directly to the problems men face, suddenly I’m being unfair. However, I wouldn’t expect in a blog devoted to how the patriarchy hurts men to find a great deal of commentary on women–so why would men expect to be the center of attention in a blog talking mostly about women’s issues?
I believe the answer is privilege.
By: Ophelia on March 14, 2009
at 9:47 pm
No, David, she was stating that men can already see boobs whenever they please, and yet they are still being objectified. Increasing exposure will NOT prevent them from being fetish-ized, because you cannot possibly increase the exposure more than they are being exposed in society here. Unlike something like a dildo or a ‘flesh-light’, they don’t have any real function in that form than just being objectifying of the female body. You don’t masturbate with your mouse pad, even if it had boobs.
The fact that you would never hug another man shows you that you have no real interest in attempting to change society or the patriarchy, you want it to change on its own, while in the meantime taking advantage of it. I’ve hugged one of my best friends from college when his grandfather died. It didn’t bother anyone. You’re making no effort to understand the problem beyond a shallow look, let alone in changing it.
By: jh on March 14, 2009
at 9:53 pm
Ophelia,
“However, I do have a minor in gender and women’s studies if its all the same to you. ”
It is, and I think it’s great that you have a solid background in the focus of these issues. But I don’t see why you would think it should be looked at one-sidedly while that’s the case. I started with the Psychology of Human Sexuality and the mutual cultural problems with gender and how they were interrelated seemed obvious from that course alone. Is there a difference between the psychological take on gender and the focus that is taken by gender studies? If so, maybe that’s a bad thing.
“These products have not disappeared from the market, yet somehow women still aren’t treated as equals.”
Actually, they are hard to come by. That boob soap dispenser for example is advertised over the internet but only shipped to locations in the UK. Yeah, I know because I liked the idea and I tried to get one because I think it’s cool. Personally, I look forward to such a thing helping me get used to seeing boobs around, because otherwise, much like those womanly ankles of yore, when I see tits I get overly excited. So it’s not as if these items have been widely spread and marketed to the point where they could effectively reduce the sexual focus of women. My hypothesis has yet to really be tested.
“When there are items fashioned in the likeness of male genitalia, they are used for sex or to signify masculinity”
You’re wrong on that one. Just do a Google search of “bachelorette party favors” and you’ll see what I mean. Penis straw anyone?
“I’m not sure where you’re going with this particular argument. Are dildos fashioned in the same way? Is there a penis shaped remote that has buttons like “give chocolate” “do dishes”? If not, perhaps the answer is that the only people who reduce men to penis size are the men themselves–hence the lack of complaint.”
I sense that you are indicating differences between the sexes in their psychology and behavior that aren’t caused by gender roles. If I’m wrong, then I’m sorry. The point I’m trying to get at is whether or not you are attributing the difference of women complaining about objectification and men not complaining to a cultural gender norm or testosterone. If it’s the latter, then it seem that your thesis is surrounded by the concept of “women = good, men = bad”
and further separate our differences as an inevitability that cannot be consoled. If it’s cultural then please try and reconsider my hypothesis and show me a better one if I’m wrong.
Men don’t need to be able to hug, we need to be able to let ourselves be hugged. We need that same feeling you take for granted when you see a female friend or family member and a warm hug seems to be in order. We also need that other right which you take for granted where you can cuddle with friends and watch movies or put your head on someone’s lap and be pet without it being a sexual thing, yet being just as intimate.
The last thing I would expect is for you or anyone else to push for cultural change on your own, but realize that some of your straight male friends might once in a while deserve the right to be treated the same way you might treat a homosexual male friend, even if he’s really masculine. Just let the gender veil be allowed to go down in your company and inform them that it was up in the first place. There’s nothing more for you to do than that.
“It just feels incredibly disengenous to say that the oppressed should take on both their cause and everyone else’s first before they are to be taken seriously.”
An essay titled, “A Victim” by Bruno Bettelheim in his book “The Informed Heart” might inspire you to think otherwise. I had to read it for school recently and it puts an interesting spin on a lot of issues where I have been angry both as a victim and in favor of the helpless victims in other social problems.
As for my social abilities, I am very able to hug anyone affectionately. It’s the constant threat among my friends of if another man would be weirded out by the suggestion of such a hug and the threat of a woman friend wanting to get a restraining order at the same suggestion that keeps me at bay at all. Tell me I’m wrong; if a woman walks up to you with the intent of affectionately hugging you, even to the point where you feel uncomfortable, you’d still let it go and think nothing more of it, but were it a straight male, you’d feel violently attacked and affraid.
“We are talking about the same thing but because I am not speaking directly to the problems men face, suddenly I’m being unfair.”
I wouldn’t say you were being unfair, because fairness in this issue is way too relative. I’d point out that by trying to deal with one side of the coin for the same issue and denying that the other side is a part of the same problem just enough to exclude discussion about it, is ineffective. It doesn’t make sense to play “he said, she said” here or try to yell “She/He started it!” Just look at the problem for what it is and consider a solution or a way to improve the status quo.
“However, I wouldn’t expect in a blog devoted to how the patriarchy hurts men to find a great deal of commentary on women–so why would men expect to be the center of attention in a blog talking mostly about women’s issues?
I believe the answer is privilege.”
Just because you claim that you’d have no problem with letting men talk about men’s issues without inducing a “What about women?” statement into it (a decision which would leave me thinking that you were letting women down by not speaking up) doesn’t mean that it’s a good idea for men or women to single themselves out from the other gender.
To be honest, by making women’s circles and women’s blog pages you’ve built small areas where you have the very same privilege that you speak of and where as a male speaker I am the minority who should be expected to have his opinion shunned for lack of understanding. Getting even with men in this sense isn’t what strikes a nerve with me. What rings in my ear when I see this sort of thing are my psychology professor’s words on men and women; “We are more alike than we are different.” For this reason, I think that it’s more important for men and women to work together on the issues of gender rather than either think that the problems are exclusive to them.
jh,
“No, David, she was stating that men can already see boobs whenever they please, and yet they are still being objectified. Increasing exposure will NOT prevent them from being fetish-ized, because you cannot possibly increase the exposure more than they are being exposed in society here.”
Who’s David? (nm, I get the mistake lol). You are both correct that men get to see breasts whenever they want, but my suggestion as to the cause for the overblown behavior of men towards sex is a lack of physical affection through any other means besides sex. Looking at boobs on a monitor is far different from caressing them in a shower, and if you think they won’t be used as something to masturbate with you should do an urban dictionary search for the term ‘titty-f*cking’. The mouse pad boobs might more or less just be foreplay. The material makes me think it would be likely to chaff.
There’s also that pillow that’s in the form of a woman’s midsection. A very good way for a man in need of affection to hold something and pretend that it’s a person who’s holding them as well.
“The fact that you would never hug another man shows you that you have no real interest in attempting to change society or the patriarchy, you want it to change on its own, while in the meantime taking advantage of it. I’ve hugged one of my best friends from college when his grandfather died. It didn’t bother anyone.”
I never said that I wouldn’t hug another man, I pointed out that as a gender rule, men are not allowed to hug anyone except their mother and their sex partner. Though, you do bring up another feature to that rule; we can hug just in extremely emotional moments like when somebody close to us died.
By: Steve on March 15, 2009
at 12:31 am
” To be honest, by making women’s circles and women’s blog pages you’ve built small areas where you have the very same privilege that you speak of and where as a male speaker I am the minority who should be expected to have his opinion shunned for lack of understanding. Getting even with men in this sense isn’t what strikes a nerve with me. What rings in my ear when I see this sort of thing are my psychology professor’s words on men and women; “We are more alike than we are different.” For this reason, I think that it’s more important for men and women to work together on the issues of gender rather than either think that the problems are exclusive to them.”
Again, you want everything to be about men while simultaneously decrying the lack of working together that is happening. These spaces, these blogs and communities for women to gather and speak are so we have a place to talk to each other and be heard. We don’t need someone to come in and talk over us and direct the flow of conversation, we wanted spaces where we could just be. It isn’t about shunning male opinions, it just so happens that many of the males who comment in our blogs want to tell us why our feelings are inappropriate, how we should be talking, and what our focus should be. Some of them claim to be on our side, some just want to tell us to shut up but all share the same self centeredness and the same determination not to get it. You wear your male privilege like a cape while accusing us of having privilege for carving out a space to air our grievances and to discuss issues that affect our day to day. This isn’t your space for one. Secondly I think its insulting to try and claim that no one here has ever been concerned for men or their issues. The reason why they don’t take precedence here is because this is not what this space was designed for. Also I think it’s insulting that you’re convinced that as a feminist I don’t encourage the men in my life to ignore what the patriarchy says and to be themselves–however the message would likely be better received if it came from their male peers. But I digress. Everything isn’t about men, no matter how much they want it to be. When the minority gathers to discuss the things affecting their life, it may be in response to the majority but it certainly isn’t about them, and we’re allowed to have that space–to have a space where the majority isn’t all that matters and our focus doesn’t have to be on them for once. To have someone from said majority traipse in, wrinkle their nose and declare that the minority should focus more on them is a slap in the face. It is disrespectful and if you ever hope to convince anyone that you mean all that you say about desiring equality, you’ll have to let go of your sense of entitlement to control the conversation and just listen.
May I just add once more that I am again insulted that someone who clearly hasn’t checked the archives is telling me I don’t talk enough or in the right way about men. The post just below this one is about men and our construction of masculinity and how it goes unchallenged BY MEN in our society–notably you have no comment for that. Also there are noticeably no comments from you on the posts about how the murder of a young father is a feminist issue to be discussed, or about how treating men as if they can never nurture hurts them is an issue that should be discussed. I never said I didn’t believe men and women should work together but it is altogether obvious that by “work together” you do mean that we should all focus on men. We already do that–it’s not really working. So I’ll keep my “small area of privilege” where I have the privilege to tell ignorant men to shut up for once, where I don’t have to let them tell me how to run anything, and I’ll like it just fine and dandy thank you very much. When you actually do read the feminism 101 blog, get back to me. I imagine some articles on male privilege and how to engage in these sorts of discussions would do you a world of good.
Also: um, why would I treat a homosexual friend differently than a heterosexual friend? Simply because the patriarchy told me to? You presume that I would in fact be more open and emotional with a homosexual friend than a heterosexual friend which is ridiculous. If my male friends aren’t openly emotional, its a choice that they’ve made and not as a result of my imposing rigid gender norms on them. I’ve never shunned someone for being emotional, I would expect them to be able to be themselves around me as I can be around them–regardless of their gender or sexuality.
“As for my social abilities, I am very able to hug anyone affectionately. It’s the constant threat among my friends of if another man would be weirded out by the suggestion of such a hug and the threat of a woman friend wanting to get a restraining order at the same suggestion that keeps me at bay at all. Tell me I’m wrong; if a woman walks up to you with the intent of affectionately hugging you, even to the point where you feel uncomfortable, you’d still let it go and think nothing more of it, but were it a straight male, you’d feel violently attacked and affraid.”
Actually I’m a proponent of the space bubble, if I haven’t let you in I’m going to feel weird regardless. However given the cultural dynamics of our society I would feel more weirded out by a straight male since I am engaged and unless they’re a friend–why would I want a strange man hugging me?
Eta: “You’re wrong on that one. Just do a Google search of “bachelorette party favors” and you’ll see what I mean. Penis straw anyone?”
You’re not exactly proving your point with a novelty item which simulates oral sex performed on a man.
“Men don’t need to be able to hug, we need to be able to let ourselves be hugged. We need that same feeling you take for granted when you see a female friend or family member and a warm hug seems to be in order. We also need that other right which you take for granted where you can cuddle with friends and watch movies or put your head on someone’s lap and be pet without it being a sexual thing, yet being just as intimate. ”
You seem to think that the physical affection women are allowed to show is some sort of privilege granted by birth into a female body. Let it be known that physical, friendly, intimacy with women will still make some believe that there is something sexual going on thanks to the stereotype about how women experiment with one another sexually when they are younger. Dori has already pointed out, in other cultures more physical affection is allowed and normal. Furthermore, your choice of wording is a bit disturbing, since cuddling isn’t a right–it’s a privilege granted by the other person who allows you to be that close to them. It’s not just culture, it’s also the friend in question.
By: Ophelia on March 15, 2009
at 1:55 am
“Again, you want everything to be about men while simultaneously decrying the lack of working together that is happening. ”
Ok, screw it, I tried. You really are just a feminist who wants to complain. “Blah blah, men are evil and always thinking as I stereotype them to think, and when I complain about their behavior men always get offended and defend themselves blah blah blah.” This has now officially gotten boring. You should just get over it.
By: Steve on March 15, 2009
at 2:56 am
Finally you admit that you have nothing of import to say. You’re a concern troll plain and simple, you had nothing of import to add to the conversation–you just searched for boob products and got lost. You have addressed none of my points while you tried to talk over me to make your own and notably you have NO comment on any of the posts in this blog about men since you don’t really care. You’ve been boring from the beginning since you’re giving me the same song and dance I’ve heard before–why if only women would stop complaing the world would be a better place. I highly doubt you’ve ever studied gender.
This, ladies and gents is why we have a comment policy but I thought–what the hey let’s give him a shot, he might actually be well meaning if not misguided. He fell into the same old troll trap, they can’t keep up a facade for long and as your responses to their comments get longer, they get more and more defensive. Then they flee, tail between their legs under the belief that they’ve won something.
I put your idiocy on blast instead of letting it fester in a forgotten post–I’d say I won and I will gladly wear my designation of “just a feminist” if you’ll wear yours of just a troll who likes boobie products.
Also: you can’t flounce when you’ve been trolling. It’s a basic tenet of internet trolling.
(Maybe this is the same guy from the grand theft auto post who couldn’t read past the first three words–I should check the ips)
In conclusion, fail.
Eta: flounce confirmed, I found another comment on my blackberry this morning that I promptly deleted without reading since, after all, I am a boring feminist.
By: Ophelia on March 15, 2009
at 3:09 am
Aah, one of my favorite kind of trolls.
My impression of Steve:
::stomps in::
“I’m gonna show you bitchez how to really be a feminist! I know from my EXTENSIVE STUDIES AND CREDENTIALS that I am much more qualified to talk about these things than you are! Nothing you say matters, I am right because I am a learned man!”
::discourse attempts::
“wait, why haven’t you bowed before my magnificence? Why haven’t you seen the LIGHT OF MANLY RIGHTNESS I have bestowed upon you!?”
::more attempts at discourse::
“Well fuck you then! you bitches are all the same!”
::flounce::
End scene
Sheesh. What is it about some guys? they just can’t stand that we aren’t talking about them all the friggen time.
By: Dori on March 15, 2009
at 7:32 pm
Ah, yes. The One-Book Wonder. Though he didn’t state this overtly, I gleaned that he has taken only one class—Psychology and Gender—in the gender studies field. And now he feels sufficiently armed with information to call other people out—people who have years worth of first-hand experience and academic study—for being wrong or misguided. Um, what?
That would be like me taking a class in Civil Rights and then going on to a Black Studies blog and saying, something like: “Um, excuse me, but white people are only appropriating your culture because we feel like we don’t have a culture of our own, so you should just chill until eventually we won’t feel deprived anymore and everything will be cool—no harm done.” And then arguing until the cows come home when I’m called out for being an idiot.
One professor and a few books or articles does not make you an expert on a subject. Anyone who has taken a college course knows that you can’t get the whole story from a single class (Note to Ophelia: “Women in East Asia,” anyone? =_= ). Not to mention that a class in psychology only goes so far in being able to explain gender roles, construction, etc. in our society, since it focuses on the behavior of individuals rather than the behavior of groups (which is what we’re talking about here.)
I guess I’m just wondering why it’s so difficult to listen, when you’re still a noob. Where’s the hubris coming from?
By: manafanana on March 16, 2009
at 5:21 pm
Hahah. The guy who replied to you is such a one-sided cock. Literally.
“At least this way, with a stress boob, boob soap dispenser, or boob pillow, a man can relieve himself of this stress through fantasies that aren’t only centered around what happens to his penis. Then, when you expect that such a man passing by would usually be trying to hump your leg, he’ll likely not care because he’s done something to relieve himself of his problem that arises from gender norms which hinder men.
The solution to equality, no matter how unjust or unfortunate one side or another has endured, is give and take. Give a dog a bone and he’ll stop begging for what’s on your plate.”
He should listen to himself. How can he be so self centred? How about women’s fantasies that need to be settled and expressed? We don’t feel the need to hump men’s legs, because we have this thing in our minds that generates automatically, called ‘General respect for others’. We also tend to judge other humans, be they female or male, as ‘Equals’.
I think this guy needed to be whacked a few more times by mummy. She must have cooked and served a few too many times for him. Obvious case of smothering and spoiling.
And as for the “Men can’t hug each other :(” thing, men themselves created that rule. Women I am guaranteeing you will have no bloody problem with men hugging each other, I know I don’t. It’s called ‘expression’. Repeat after me. This guy can’t blame women for a fault that men themselves have generated. WTF are we punching bags darling?
And also as for “Your boobs are a power you don’t want taken away from you”; the more the media over-sexualizes the bosom, the more it can be used and acknowledged as a sexual manipulative power.
Let’s throw him to the lions, girls. Next!
By: DarkestMaiden on April 6, 2009
at 6:26 am